SCP E61: Interoperability and Power the Key to Smart Cities, with Robert Linsdell

SmartCityPodcast_BlogTitleImage_Episode61 Robert Linsdell

In this episode of the Smart City Podcast, I had a fantastic conversation with Robert Linsdell, the Managing Director of Vertiv for Australia and New Zealand. He is passionate about technology; he grew up with it and has worked with it all of his life. We first talked about the different sectors of the Smart City and what is to come. We then talk about the importance of uninterrupted connectivity and power supply for a Smart City. Robert then talks about how important it is for interoperability to occur, to collaborate instead of compete. Robert shares was Vertiv does, particular with regards to data centres and UPS — uninterruptible power supply. We then talk about how unforgiving we are of technology and that we need to start talking about what to do if it fails. Finally, we discuss how important it is for government to keep up with technology when doing policy and planning. As always I hope you enjoy listening to this episode as much as I enjoyed making it.

Listen Here:

What we cover in this episode:

  • Robert’s background in technology
  • The 4th industrial revolution
  • What sparked his interest in the Smart City space
  • What a Smart City means to Robert and why he thinks it’s important
  • The unique challenges of the Smart City space in Australia
  • The importance of interoperability and collaboration in the Smart City Space
  • What Vertiv does and how they can help support business and data centres
  • Uninterrupted connectivity and power supply for data centres and Smart Cities
  • The emerging trend of resilience and why we should be talking about it more
  • The reasons Governments need to keep up with technology


“The fourth industrial revolution is about cyber-physical…we humans are going to be automatically interacting with that technology without any direct input. We might have a wearable or we might have some glasses on, but things will just happen because we’re there.”

“We’re going to be challenged with having good connectivity, all of these interactions are going to need to have power, and that power needs to be always on, and of course we need security because it needs to be reliable.”

“There are very many aspects of Smart Cities which have yet to be developed. The exciting things for me is that all of these technologies are going to have to talk to each other and they’re all going to have to work, and that’s the fun part!”

“We’re entering a world where there’s a lot of economic turmoil, there’s climate change…we have an ageing population, we have a lot of urbanisation…within the Smart City environment, we actually have the technology and the innovation to solve all of these difficulties. The question is how we align it all so that it does become efficient.”

“I get pretty frustrated whenever I can’t use an app. I actually changed bank because the app was almost impossible to use…As the Smart City becomes clever enough to allow all this stuff to work, we have an expectation then that it will work…What happens when [that app] fails?”

“The world becomes actually a very difficult place when it doesn’t happen [the way it is supposed to]. I’m not entirely confident that the technology is always going work for us.”

“If cost becomes the only driver, then there often are corners cut, and if the corner is cut, then there is generally an explainable outage.”

“Governments are pretty good at being able to run countries, but they’re not necessarily fully on board with the technology. And as the technology becomes ever more complicated and specialist, it makes it harder for the governments to maintain levels of control over this and to operate fast enough.”


Smart City Podcast Episode 9: The Key To Resilience Is Human, with Mike Legatt


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The Smart City Podcast is produced by Ellen Ronalds Keene.

SCP E60: Bonus | Sustainability, Liveability and Making the World Better, with Will Davies

SmartCityPodcast_BlogTitleImage_Episode60 Will Davies

In this episode of the Smart City Podcast, I interview the CEO of Car Next Door, Will Davies. Will starts with discussing how he started to follow his passion for reducing our carbon footprint, utilising our resources better and how that fits into the Smart City space. We take a bit of a deep dive into car sharing and public transport attitudes as well as equal access to mobility. He has an exciting idea about how every new human could make the world a better place. We talk a lot about what Car Next door actually does, and finish our conversation talking about impacts on infrastructure and costs of autonomous vehicles, public transport and car sharing. As always I hope you enjoyed listening to this episode as much as I enjoyed making it.

What we cover in this episode:

  • Will’s background in finance, and why he made the shift to reducing carbon emissions through a car sharing platform Car Next Door
  • What Car Next Door does and how it fits into smart cities
  • What a Smart City means to Zoe and Will
  • Technology and mindset change that makes new human beings a net positive for the planet
  • How Australia is embracing the Smart City concept and why we must focus on changing the mindset of citizens to implement steps towards overall change
  • The suboptimal positions we’ve got ourselves into because “that’s the way it’s always been done” thinking
  • The future of public transport
  • Ways Will had to integrate across different disciplines to get Car Next Door up and running
  • Possible ways the emerging trend of driverless cars could make the world better


“Car Next Door is a peer-to-peer car sharing platform. There’s 7 million cars in Australian cities. Most people’s cars, or the average car, sits around doing nothing for 95% of the time.”

“I think that Smart Cities need to be reducing their carbon emissions dramatically and car sharing is a very good way of doing that.”

“Making a place more liveable, and a happier place for people to live, is definitely a big part of [what a Smart City means to me]. Also just doing more with less. There is a huge amount of waste that we’re emitting everywhere, and we can be so much more efficient. Technology is a great way forward for us to do that.”

“Car-sharing is completely enabled by technology. It would be impossible to do what we’re doing without the internet and mobile technology and all those other building blocks that have come in place.”

“I’m very strongly of the view that in the next 3-5 years you will be able to get picked up by a driverless robo-taxi and taken where you want to go for very, very little money.”


Find the full show notes:

Connect with will via the website or email him at

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The Smart City Podcast is produced by Ellen Ronalds Keene.

SCP E59: Integrating Technologies and Embracing the Digital Age, with Emma Hendry

SmartCityPodcast_BlogTitleImage_Episode59 Emma Hendry

In this episode of the Smart City Podcast, I had a fantastic conversation with Emma Hendry. Emma is the CEO of Hendry Group and was also a member of the Future Leaders, Future Cities delegation to Japan. Emma and I discuss incorporating tech into everyday business and how to move into the digital age. We also discuss learnings from Japan, what Emma has been up to lately, and how we can better integrate across the different disciplines using technology. We also talk about some of the emerging trends, global conversations and how to deal with risk. As always I hope you enjoy listening to this episode as much as I enjoyed making it.

Listen Here:

What we cover in this episode:

  • Emma’s background and her passion for creating safer, smarter and more sustainable places for people to live
  • What sparked her interest in the Smart City space, what a Smart City is to her and why it’s so important
  • Why we need to be paying attention to how current resources are being stretched by emerging & complex problems
  • Emma’s takeaways from the Future Cities, Future Leaders trip to Japan and some of the projects she’s been working on since then –
  • Using virtual reality and mixed reality for emergency training and AR tech to create virtual asset registers
  • How Australia is embracing the Smart City space and how Emma is seeing it growing
  • Emma’s key message when she talks about smart cities on the stage
  • How using virtual tools allows for world-wide collaboration can lead to real time outcomes (instead of just more emails!)
  • Technologies and techniques Emma is keen on exploring further
  • The importance of alignment, incentives and accountability when it comes to integrating across different disciplines
  • The emerging trends of corporate and social anxiety about the digital revolution, and the need to be a fast mover and pioneer to avoid being disrupted
  • The gaps Emma sees in the Smart City space, and the opportunities for up- and re-skilling via traditional and micro-credentialed programs
  • How risk fits into the Smart City space and why we need a culture that encourages jumping in, pioneering, failing fast and failing often
  • Tracking the health of the built environment and the power of using the analytics that come from the technology


“We help create safer, smarter and more sustainable buildings, cities and communities for all.”

“To me [a Smart City] is really a utopian concept as opposed to a definitive end state. I see it as a series of steps and processes by which buildings, cities, communities can become more liveable, safer, sustainable and resilient.”

“[The Smart City Concept] is important because it’s not a static concept. It will continue to evolve and address the complex problems of the day, while enhancing the sustainability and wellness of the build environment for everyone.”

“Overall [Australia’s embrace of Smart Cities] is still nascent in nature. Some sectors and areas are more progressive than others…I believe Australia is ripe to embrace the Smart City concept and reap the benefits of its implementation.”

“It’s about education and knowledge. There’s so much information out there, you really have to make sure you’re data-literate, digital-literate…It’s a really inclusive subject and I think that’s what’s so important about the Smart Cities concept: it’s for everyone.”


“There are so many fantastic tools out there now available to us that allow you to collaborate from anywhere in the world, and using AR and 3D imagery, actually really solve problems in real time.”

“What I’m really excited about is how to integrate and interconnect all of these new technologies. E.g. AI, machine learning and automation, connecting that in with VR, AR and advanced imagery and also with blockchain, [and IOT]…It’s not viewing each of these technology in isolation, it’s what could it solve when we start integrating it all together?”

“Collaboration and communication is key between all disciplines, government and industry, and it is imperative to enable not just a comprehensive understanding of an issue, but the formulation and most importantly the implementation of any initiative.”

“I don’t think that we’re actually… putting it into practice. I think we’re talking about these things a lot [AI, AR/VR, IOT, blockchain] but I rarely see companies really diving into it unless they’re really high-tech firms.”

“The digital revolution, industry 4.0 is here, and it’s not going away… if you’re not a fast mover or a pioneer, you’re going to get left behind and become disrupted.”

“Your jobs are still going to be needed, it’s just that higher cognitive level of understanding, empathy, problem solving, that human interaction element is just going to become a lot more enhanced.”


“It’s not about the technology, it’s about the analytics that comes from it.”


You can connect with Emma via the Contact page on the Hendry Group website, or reach out to her on LinkedIn

Connect with me via email:

Connect via Twitter and Facebook @smartcitypod

The Smart City Podcast is produced by Ellen Ronalds Keene.

SCP E58: Smart Cities as a way of thinking, with David Batchelor

SmartCityPodcast_BlogImage_Episode58 David Batchelor


In this episode of the Smart City Podcast, I had a fantastic conversation with David Batchelor, a planner ad history buff from Wellington, passionate about heritage and culture in our cities.
He is also a member of the Smart Cities Council Emerging Innovators and talks about Smart Cities being a way to create great connected spaces for the people in them, and about Smart Cities being a universal language, a level playing field where we can all communicate.

David tells us how New Zealand is currently embracing the Smart City concept and the importance of overall vision and strategy. He discusses some of the things that are happening in Wellington, particularly to do with resilience and tells us some really cool stuff about Smart heritage. We finish our conversation about public trust and the different types of feedback.

Disclaimer: Everything discussed is personal opinion only and does not represent any company or government agency.

Listen here:

Subscribe on Apple Podcasts, Google Podcasts or Spotify.

What we cover in this episode:

  • David’s background in planning and his passion for heritage and culture in cities
  • How he stumbled into the Smart City arena and why he thinks the concept is so important
  • How David believes New Zealand is embracing the Smart City concept
  • The pros and cons of Australia’s and New Zealand’s approaches to Smart Cities
  • The Resilience Tool David is currently working on for the city of Wellington
  • The varied and diverse backgrounds in the Smart City arena and why it’s more of a way of thinking than a sector
  • The importance of understanding different perspectives in order to integrate across different disciplines
  • Emerging trends and opportunities for local governments to use technology to enable real-time feedback loops and the nature of public trust


“I saw [Smart Cities] as a breath of fresh air into the area of consenting, of planning here in New Zealand, especially in heritage. A huge opportunity to improve what we’re doing and I think it’s really relevant for planning and heritage.”

“To me, a Smart City is a physical space that is effective in enabling its citizens to live within it, so that comes down to more of a social definition. Creating a great connected space for the people in it.”

“I’ve heard people in Wellington talk about their approach trying to become more natural. So, why have a policy? Why not just integrate it into what we already do? That’s great and doesn’t get caught up in the shopping list of IOT devices…However it lacks a political appetite in the direction that a policy or something higher up gives a sector.”

“We do have some fantastic people, especially in Wellington, who are pushing it along. They’re champions, without them, the [Smart City] sector would probably fall over.”

“[The Wellington Resilience Tool] tries to tell the story but also embed the data into the public thinking about safety…there’s a huge moral panic about [earthquake-readiness of heritage buildings], so we’re looking to show the story of how these buildings aren’t actually dangerous… so we can actually have a proper conversation about it.”

“The data scientists have a completely different approach to how planners or engineers or consultants or politicians think about it. The more I dig into it, the more I realise the Smart City sector might not be a sector, it’s more of a way of thinking.”

“I think [talking to people outside your discipline is] the best way to open your eyes, get your brain switched onto a different way of thinking, to approach the question of “how do we improve our city?” in a variety of ways, so you’re not just approaching it from your silo-ed engineer or planner bubble.”

“I think here’s a huge opportunity for local government to use social media or the internet …to engage better with the public.”

“Technology enables us to very quickly take the temperature or a snapshot of the public’s view…why doesn’t local council do that? There’s so many opportunities to have a dialogue with local government, which isn’t being grabbed with two hands.”


Connect with David on LinkedIn

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The Smart City Podcast is produced by Ellen Ronalds Keene.

SCP E57: City Deals for Integrated Cities, with Michael Comninos


In this episode of the Smart City Podcast, I had a great chat with Michael Comninos, the Managing Director of Astrolabe Group. First he tells us about his background in mathematics and growth infrastructure planning, so how cities grow. He also talks about the Smart City being about people and place, and also the importance of governance reform and leadership. Michael also tells us about some of the things he’s been working on, including City Deals, and how it’s important for the government to shift their thinking from being a regulator to moving to a customer-centric approach. We also talk about some emerging trends and the fact that everyone is still learning. As always I hope you enjoy listening to this episode as much as I enjoyed making it.

Listen here: 

Subscribe on Apple Podcasts, Google Podcasts or Spotify.

What we cover in this episode:

  • Michael’s background in mathematics, government and growth infrastructure planning
  • What a Smart City is to him and why the people first approach is important
  • How Australia is embracing the Smart City concept and the opportunities Michael sees for us in the space
  • Projects Michael’s currently working on and how his consultancy works
  • What a City Deal is and what the approach means in the context of Smart Cities
  • The need for governments to move from being a regulator to being customer-focused
  • Why focusing on people and place is the antidote to silos and the way we can integrate across disciplines
  • The maturity curve from awareness to alignment to coordination and then integration
  • The reason we need to talk about city management as well as just city planning
  • The difference between consultants and academics, and when you should use each
  • What and how we can learn from our global partners and adapt that learning to local contexts
  • What Michael would change if he had a magic wand
  • Why we need to be talking more about millennials
  • The impact complexity and choice has on citizens lives and therefore on politics



“I’m vendor agnostic, technology agnostic in terms of what solutions address a certain problem…[Smart Cities] is about the use of technology and governance reform to be able to deliver the aspirations and objectives of a place and the people within that place.”

“I don’t think BAU will get us where we need to get to and if don’t look at using technology to help us deal with some of these challenges and take advantage of the opportunities, there’ll be significant impacts.”

“There’s a lot of metrics from a commercial perspective that show that we are highly digitally literate (in Australia). But then there are other elements where we’re very far behind…and the opportunity there is we can be a fast follower.”

“The idea behind a city deal is that you have the three levels of government working together in a place. So you have a defined geography of where you’ll come together and make decisions, you have an agreed set of priorities, and a number of different initiatives that you work together to deliver.”   

“When we talk about Smart Cities in Australia, the Commonwealth has a certain agenda that they want cities to start to do things in a certain way.”

“People understand they can’t do things on their own, they understand in a place context that there are many participants…and there needs to be catalyst to start that conversation, herd the cats, get people thinking about things in a certain way, get them ready to make investments.”

“One of the hardest things for governments to get their head around is moving from being a regulator to being customer focused.”

“When there’s a risk of failure you shouldn’t be using a consultant, you should be using an academic.”

“Some of the constructs we have to create public trust and demonstrate value for money, particularly around procurement, make it very hard for you to try things that might not work, make it very hard for you to engage with a broader group of solution providers without being clear on what you want.”

“Some of the barriers to Smart City development in Australia probably go down to the structural safeguards embedded in our procurement system that primarily are there to avoid corrupt behaviour.”

“I think the technology is running ahead of our ability to use it, so we need reform to some of these government constructs…People are looking at it, it’s just it’s quite a challenging space.”

“[On Millennials] We’re talking about a group of people who have different preferences, different behaviours, different abilities to interact…how do we harness this tremendous pool of talent that we have to make Australia better?”

“An election is the ultimate A/B test, and it happens on a semi- regular basis. And we don’t go deep enough into why people are expressing those views and how we can use those views to shape our city.”



The Western Sydney City Deal Michael has been working on

The Smart Cities Plan from 2016

Future Cities CRC

Michael’s consultancy The Astrolabe Group



Connect with Michael via LinkedIn or on Twitter @astrolabe_au

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The Smart City Podcast is produced by Ellen Ronalds Keene.

SCP E56: BONUS | Smart Chats – Governance, with Danielle Storey



In this episode of the Smart City Podcast I have a great conversation with Danielle Storey. Danielle is the Chief Innovation Officer of Smarter Technology Solutions, a specialist Smart City Consulting and System Integration Company working with some of the leading Smart Cities in Australia. It’s the third time she’s been on the podcast (previously in Episodes 25 and 35) and this time we talk about Smart City Governance and the importance of frameworks in this space. I hope you enjoy listening to this bonus episode as much as I enjoyed making it.

Listen Here

What we covered in this episode:

  • A bit about Danielle’s background and what she’s passionate about, for those who haven’t yet listened to Episode 35
  • What a Smart City is to her and why it’s so important
  • How Danielle thinks Australia is embracing the Smart City concept and our place in the global context
  • The opportunities for global collaboration that exist in regions with similar problems   
  • What is governance and the various elements of it
  • The importance of having education and consultation in parallel and of asking the questions ‘what lens are we looking through?’ And ‘what problems are we solving?’
  • Why we need to empower people to make decisions within organisations as well as external stakeholders
  • The challenges with having a critical mass of interested parties, engaging people at all levels and having management/senior leadership buy in when incorporating Smart City strategies
  • The need for representing a variety of people on committees as equals, and having a mix of technical and non-technical people in the room to make educated decisions
  • The benefits of periodically getting away from business-as-usual to focus on innovation
  • Emerging trends Danielle has come across since her last interview, including the building momentum for Smart Cities, the interest in public-private partnerships and the movements away from a risk-averse culture
  • Some upcoming conferences and events in the Smart Space in Australia


“I think a Smart City is really about aspiring to do things better. And whether better is more sustainably, to better support the local economy, or whether it’s about the communities. It’s using data and technology to be more efficient and effective in how we run cities and deliver services to the community.”

“I don’t feel that we’re so far behind. Certainly some of the global case studies do a great job of marketing, but boots on the ground, what they’re delivering is not overly dissimilar to what we’re delivering here [in Australia], but perhaps they do it in a more mature way.”

“Depending on the person you’re talking to, [governance] might mean policy and procedure and auditing; to someone else that might mean vision and leadership and a documented strategy; for others it might be technical architecture frameworks and making sure that when we build all these things that they do fit together nicely and we can share data between organisations.”

“The governance piece is not just internal Council-led, but also should be in strong consultation with both those internal stakeholders and the external public.”

“Sometimes people don’t know what they want because they don’t understand the context of the  question. If people don’t know what Smart Cities is and what its capable of, then their suggestions are not going to be coming from a place that understands what is possible.”

“If you talk about Smart Cities and technology, it’s not surprise that you might lose 50% fo the audience in the opening lines. But if you ask people if they want to make their cities safer, create local jobs or fix the traffic problems, you rarely have someone who doesn’t want to participate.”

“We’re always too busy to take a step back and think about if there’s better ways of doing things. But just taking a step back, you often create sometimes a bit more work in the short term to make things more effective and efficient in the long term.”

“If this is something we’re serious about, and if we’re going to change the way that we deliver services and we’re going o change the way that we operate, then how are we going to get there and who do we need to come on the journey?”

“You need people to come along for the ride, and change is not easy. I think it’s probably a bigger challenge than the technology or the actual implementation of a  “Smart City” but it’s the important bit.”

“I’ve really noticed in the last 6 months things really accelerating [in the general awareness about the Smart City space]. I still think we’re probably 2 years away from the critical mass.”


WaterStart Nevada

IOT Impact Event in Sydney 10th 11th September by the IOTAA

Smart Cities Week Australia in October

ASCA Discussion Paper on Reimagining the Local Government Operation Model


Connect with Dani on LinkedIn or Smarter Technology Solutions at the website

Connect with me via email:

Connect via Twitter and Facebook @smartcitypod

The Smart City Podcast is produced by Ellen Ronalds Keene.

SCP E55: The Circular Economy, with Ashleigh Morris


In this episode of the Smart City Podcast, I had a fantastic conversation with Ashleigh Morris. Ashleigh is the cofounder and CEO fo the Circular Experiment, and also joined me on the Future Leaders, Future Cities delegation to Japan. Ashleigh and I discuss our observations from Japan, as well as how Smart Cities and the Circular Economy fit together. Ashleigh also explains what the Circular Economy is and what the Circular Experiment worked on. We also discuss emerging trends of connecting knowledge and genuine collaboration.

Listen Here:

What we cover in this episode:

  • Ashleigh’s background in environmental management and how she’s ended up working in the circular economy
  • What sparked Ashleigh’s interest in the Smart City Space and how it fits in with the circular economy
  • What is a Smart City to Ashleigh and why she thinks it’s so important
  • How Australia is embracing the Smart City concept and thoughts on why it’s integrating so quickly
  • What the circular economy is and what The Circular Experiment does
  • The problem with the linear economy model and the experiment Ashleigh and her co-founder did on the Sunshine Coast to prove the benefits of a circular economy
  • What Ashleigh and Zoe took away from the trip to Japan for the Future Leaders, Future Cities delegation
  • The opportunities and challenges of collaboration and integration across diverse stakeholders
  • The importance of trust and relationship building in the collaboration conversation
  • The problem with putting Smart Cities and Circular Economies in different conversations and the opportunities of genuine collaboration


“The rise of technology and applying that into our cities for the better, to drive economics, environmental change and societal change, is really strong.”

“Technology is going to the be the enabling factor that provides us with that big data on what is happening, what are the inputs and outputs in our cities and our lives, and how can we then be more efficient and Smart about how we use them and interpret that to create positive change.”

“A Smart City to me is a connected city. Utilising technology for us to communicate and interpret data, and make more intelligent decisions on how we operate and how we recoup any lost value within the system.”

“If we look [at Smart Cities] through the lease of opportunity, of value creation, it’s unprecedented. I think it’s going to change our communities, our societies, from that micro to the macro level, significantly and for the better.”

“Australians are quite progressive. We’re a small country and we rightfully innovate because we can, and we are a wealthy nation as well.

“The circular economy is not new, it’s been around for millennia, and you can refer it back to indigenous cultures right around the world where you’re looking at the entire operating system that we live in. Taking that…an economic performance-based model that relies on systems-wide innovation to de-couple our economic growth from the consumption of finite resources.”

“Now we build in obsolescence because that’s really become a strong economic model, which is the linear model. We take, we make, we use and dispose, so we have to constantly go out and  buy new. But a circular economy is about keeping things at their highest value for the longest amount of time you can possibly.”

“We were able to prove that there is actual economic revenue generated out of applying circular economy. There’s large economic savings to be made, there’s huge social capital gains…and also environmental savings.”

“Collaboration is essential but it’s very difficult to achieve.”

“There’s power in the collective, so if you’re able to get a diverse group of stakeholders around the table and have a conversation in a way that’s non-threatening…Smart Cities can be a conduit to bring those people around the table to say you all have a vested interest here and this is the means by which it can be achieved.”

“We can’t afford to do things the way we’ve always done…and that’s exciting because it opens such a realm of opportunity for everybody.”


The best place to connect with Ashleigh is LinkedIn

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Connect via Twitter and Facebook @smartcitypod

The Smart City Podcast is produced by Ellen Ronalds Keene.